[Leish-l] inquiry
BobKillick-Kendrick
killickendrick at wanadoo.fr
Wed Jun 8 12:59:56 BRT 2011
If there are hybrids between infantum and donovani in Turkey, the cross must have taken place in a vector. Petr, is there a sand fly species there that transmits both parasites? If not, how can there be a hybrid?
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Bastien
To: Petr Volf
Cc: Pratlong F ; Lachaud ; Ravel ; leish-l at lineu.icb.usp.br
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Leish-l] inquiry
Dear Petr,
Two comments :
1) I am curious to know how you define a hybrid between L. infantum
and L. donovani, knowing that these species are quite difficult to
differentiate by simple sequence analysis. Is it using the MLST method
described in your paper attached ? Are the genes you are using single
copy or duplicated ? Have you used isoenzymes for confirmation ?
2) Talking of such, I am always puzzled when I see efforts for
correlating molecular and isoenzyme-based phenogramms (Fig. 4, your
article attached). Worse, your text clearly states that the strains
analyzed are "unambiguously distinct from the MON-1 zymodeme (...) of
L. infantum". This is particularly risky, as it is to use zymodeme
names (MON-...) in a phylogenetic reconstruction using other intrinsic
(here molecular) criteria. Indeed, a zymodeme may include different
genotypes and a genotype may theoretically cover several zymodemes. A
zymodeme is nothing else than an "operational taxonomic unit" used for
classification (phenetics) (see the famous paper by Rioux et al.
attached); as such, it has no biological nor evolutionary signification.
Similarly, when you write "Among accessible isolates typed using the
MLST method, our strain is close to MON-188, the L. infantum strain
isolated by Gramiccia (Pratlong et al., 2003)(...)", the MON-... is
abusively assimilated to a given strain (here ISS800), whereas one
zymodeme normally clusters several strains, that might be found
clustered differently using your method or another method.
Another important point is that the MON-... is defined by the
examination of a series of 15 given iso-enzymes, but this is also
dependent upon the technique used (and, to a lesser degree, to the
person/research group who defines it). That is why Rioux et al.
recommended that each identifying center use its own code (such as
MON- for Montpellier or LON- for London). Indeed, MON-188 in
Montpellier migh tbe different from MON-188 in another center if the
system used is not exactly the same.
All this may seem trivial, but there is a real danger, as it slowly
introduces in the minds of our colleagues scientists that different
classifications are equivalent.
I know that I am touching on a question which can yield hours of
debate and thousands of e-mails; so, although I am sure you will want
to reply to this, please note that I do not want to lauch such a
debate online !
Best wishes
Patrick
Professeur Patrick Bastien
Laboratoire de Parasitologie-Mycologie, Faculté de Médecine
UMR MIVEGEC (CNRS 5290 - IRD 224 - Université Montpellier 1)
Centre National de Référence des Leishmania
CHU de Montpellier
39 Avenue Charles Flahault
34295 Montpellier Cedex 5, France
Petr Volf <volf at cesnet.cz> a écrit :
> Re: [Leish-l] inquiryHi K.P.,
> in Cukurova region, Turkey, cutaneous L. infantum (now it seems that
> we are dealing with L.donovani/L. infantum hybrid) grew very
> poorely if we isolated them from patients. Only 1 of 25 isolations
> was succesfull. However, the same strain (confirmed by molecular
> methods) grew repeatedly and very well if we isolated them from
> sandflies. It might be useful for Dr. Sharma try to get isolates
> from sand flies. It is very laborious but very useful, in Cukurova
> we got about dozen of isolates by this method (all identical).
> Patients are rK39 negative, see attached paper.
> Best wishes
> Petr
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chang, Kwang-Poo
> To: Sharman ; Hiro Goto ; elfadil abass
> Cc: leish-l at lineu.icb.usp.br
> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 1:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [Leish-l] inquiry
>
>
> Dr. NL Sharma has been working on an important CL endemic area
> along the Satluj River valley to the south of Himalaya in India
> (Please correct me should I be wrong for anything I said here and
> below). I had the good fortune of visiting the site several years
> back courtesy of Dr. Sharma.
>
> I believe Dr. Sharma's finding is important, since the parasites
> there are different from the familiar Indian L donovani in Bihar.
> The parasites are refratory to in vitro cultivation. They do
> differentiate into promastigotes and may grow a little, but can't
> really be subcultured to establish passageable lines. This is very
> much reminescent of L infantum in the Mediterranean area. I recall
> Dr. Sharma has also found rK39+ dogs, if I remember correctly. If
> so, Satluj river valley is endemic to the infantile CL.
>
> Analyses of several batches of basically clinical CL samples from
> Dr. Sharma showed evidence of L infantum, but also L tropica as well
> as a mixture of the two in one sample. This is the same picture we
> have noted for samples from Hatay, Turkey.
>
> These observations make me wonder a lot about our current
> knowledge on the clinico-epidemiology based on data collected
> previously by analyses of cultured promastigotes from one or few
> 'representative samples'. Nowaday, technology makes it very doable
> to work with biological samples for Leish DNAs directly from sand
> flies, patients and reservoir animals.
>
> KP
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: leish-l-bounces at lineu.icb.usp.br on behalf of Sharman
> Sent: Fri 5/20/2011 11:31 PM
> To: Hiro Goto; elfadil abass
> Cc: leish-l at lineu.icb.usp.br
> Subject: Re: [Leish-l] inquiry
>
>
> Dear all
> I agree with Hiro gito, We are working on a focus where the CL is
> predominantly caused by L. donovani, and the rK 39 STRIPS GIVE POSITIVE
> RESULTS WITH SERA as well as serous exudate from the lesion. The
> results are
> dependent upon species.
> NL Sharma
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Hiro Goto" <hgoto at usp.br>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 12:09 AM
> To: "elfadil abass" <elfadil_abass at yahoo.com>
> Cc: <leish-l at lineu.icb.usp.br>
> Subject: Re: [Leish-l] inquiry
>
> > Dear all,
> > In our oppinion, DAT and rK39 for those samples are not indicated since
> > these tests are produced for the diagnosis of visceral leishmaniasis.
> > In case of tegumentary leishmaniasis, it is very appropriate the
> > observation of J.J. Shaw appointing species specificity of antibody
> > response in these cases. Titers of antibodies are in general low
> in these
> > cases therefore depending on the species, it may result
> negative. We have
> > published a review recently in Expert Rev. Anti Infect. Ther. 8(4),
> > 419?433 (2010), Current diagnosis and treatment of cutaneous and
> > mucocutaneous leishmaniasis, where we raise this point.
> > Hiro Goto
> >
> > Citando elfadil abass <elfadil_abass at yahoo.com>:
> >
> >> Dear all I would recommend using DAT and rK39 strip test to measure
> >> antibody
> >> responses and to evaluate the diagnostic efficiency for both tests in
> >> such group
> >> of patients.
> >>
> >> Elfadil Abass
> >>
> ________________________________________________________________________________
> >> Institute of Medical Microbiology and Hospital Hygiene
> >> Philipps University Marburg
> >> BMFZ / Hans-Meerwein Straße 2
> >> D-35033 Marburg, Germany
> >>
> ________________________________________________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Nuha Nuwayri-Salti <racha at aub.edu.lb>
> >> To: saad saad <saad1426 at gmail.com>; "leish-l at lineu.icb.usp.br"
> >> <leish-l at lineu.icb.usp.br>
> >> Sent: Fri, May 13, 2011 9:39:33 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Leish-l] inquiry
> >>
> >> Dear Saad first precaution to take is to separate your samples into
> >> several
> >> portions each (at least 5 each being no more than a few hundred(200-400)
> >> microliters). This is a necessary precaution to avoid freezing and
> >> thawing
> >> several times the same sample which will be the case should you do
> >> different
> >> studies at different times which is unavoidable.
> >>
> >> What you can do is correlate the type(ulcerated, abscess, furuncle
> >> etc.. ) the
> >> locale, the number and age of lesions with the levels of
> antibody in the
> >> sera of
> >> these patgients and also monitor cell mediated immunity with leishmanin
> >> skin
> >> test!
> >> I have just published (in print) an article about having circulating
> >> parasites
> >> in some of these patients with apparently pure cutaneous disease. It is
> >> the
> >> first paper that revealed this fact. It would be interesting to confirm
> >> or
> >> de-confirm this fact repeating what we did.
> >> Best wishes
> >>
> >> Nuha Nuwayri-Salti MD
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> AOA
> >> Medical Honor Society
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: leish-l-bounces at lineu.icb.usp.br
> >> [mailto:leish-l-bounces at lineu.icb.usp.br]
> >> On Behalf Of saad saad
> >> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 11:23 PM
> >> To: leish-l at lineu.icb.usp.br
> >> Subject: [Leish-l] inquiry
> >>
> >> Dear all
> >> Hi. i am Saad from Saudi Arabia. i have 60 sera from positive case of
> >> CL from south west of the country. I would like to have your
> >> recommendations to start a good research line in CL using these sera.
> >> Thanks in advance for your help
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > Profa. Dra. Hiro Goto
> > Laboratório de Soroepidemiologia e Imunobiologia
> > Instituto de Medicina Tropical de São Paulo, USP
> > Av. Dr. Enéas de Carvalho Aguiar, 470, prédio II, quarto andar
> > 05403-000 - São Paulo, SP
> > Tel. +55-11-3061 7023, 3061 7056 ou 3061 7027
> > Fax. +55-11-3061-8270
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leish-l mailing list
> > Leish-l at lineu.icb.usp.br
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> >
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