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<DIV>If there are hybrids between <EM>infantum</EM> and <EM>donovani</EM> in
Turkey, the cross must have taken place in a vector. Petr, is there a sand fly
species there that transmits both parasites? If not, how can there be a
hybrid?</DIV>
<DIV> Bob</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=patrick.bastien@univ-montp1.fr
href="mailto:patrick.bastien@univ-montp1.fr">Patrick Bastien</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=volf@cesnet.cz
href="mailto:volf@cesnet.cz">Petr Volf</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A
title=f-pratlong@chu-montpellier.fr
href="mailto:f-pratlong@chu-montpellier.fr">Pratlong F</A> ; <A
title=laurence.lachaud@chu-nimes.fr
href="mailto:laurence.lachaud@chu-nimes.fr">Lachaud</A> ; <A
title=christophe.ravel@univ-montp1.fr
href="mailto:christophe.ravel@univ-montp1.fr">Ravel</A> ; <A
title=leish-l@lineu.icb.usp.br
href="mailto:leish-l@lineu.icb.usp.br">leish-l@lineu.icb.usp.br</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, June 03, 2011 3:37 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Leish-l] inquiry</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Dear Petr,<BR><BR>Two comments :<BR>1) I am curious to know how
you define a hybrid between L. infantum <BR>and L. donovani, knowing
that these species are quite difficult to <BR>differentiate by simple
sequence analysis. Is it using the MLST method <BR>described in your
paper attached ? Are the genes you are using single <BR>copy or
duplicated ? Have you used isoenzymes for confirmation ?<BR><BR>2) Talking of
such, I am always puzzled when I see efforts for <BR>correlating
molecular and isoenzyme-based phenogramms (Fig. 4, your <BR>article
attached). Worse, your text clearly states that the strains <BR>analyzed
are "unambiguously distinct from the MON-1 zymodeme (...) of <BR>L.
infantum". This is particularly risky, as it is to use zymodeme
<BR>names (MON-...) in a phylogenetic reconstruction using other
intrinsic <BR>(here molecular) criteria. Indeed, a zymodeme may include
different <BR>genotypes and a genotype may theoretically cover several
zymodemes. A <BR>zymodeme is nothing else than an "operational taxonomic
unit" used for <BR>classification (phenetics) (see the famous paper by
Rioux et al. <BR>attached); as such, it has no biological nor
evolutionary signification.<BR>Similarly, when you write "Among accessible
isolates typed using the <BR>MLST method, our strain is close to
MON-188, the L. infantum strain <BR>isolated by Gramiccia (Pratlong et
al., 2003)(...)", the MON-... is <BR>abusively assimilated to a given
strain (here ISS800), whereas one <BR>zymodeme normally clusters several
strains, that might be found <BR>clustered differently using your method
or another method.<BR>Another important point is that the MON-... is defined
by the <BR>examination of a series of 15 given iso-enzymes, but this is
also <BR>dependent upon the technique used (and, to a lesser degree, to
the <BR>person/research group who defines it). That is why Rioux et
al. <BR>recommended that each identifying center use its own code (such
as <BR>MON- for Montpellier or LON- for London). Indeed, MON-188
in <BR>Montpellier migh tbe different from MON-188 in another center if
the <BR>system used is not exactly the same.<BR>All this may seem
trivial, but there is a real danger, as it slowly <BR>introduces in the
minds of our colleagues scientists that different <BR>classifications
are equivalent.<BR>I know that I am touching on a question which can yield
hours of <BR>debate and thousands of e-mails; so, although I am sure you
will want <BR>to reply to this, please note that I do not want to lauch
such a <BR>debate online !<BR><BR>Best
wishes<BR>Patrick<BR><BR>Professeur Patrick Bastien<BR>Laboratoire de
Parasitologie-Mycologie, Faculté de Médecine<BR>UMR MIVEGEC (CNRS 5290 - IRD
224 - Université Montpellier 1)<BR>Centre National de Référence des
Leishmania<BR>CHU de Montpellier<BR>39 Avenue Charles Flahault<BR>34295
Montpellier Cedex 5, France<BR><BR>Petr Volf <<A
href="mailto:volf@cesnet.cz">volf@cesnet.cz</A>> a écrit :<BR><BR>>
Re: [Leish-l] inquiryHi K.P.,<BR>> in Cukurova region, Turkey, cutaneous L.
infantum (now it seems that <BR>> we are dealing with
L.donovani/L. infantum hybrid) grew very <BR>> poorely if we
isolated them from patients. Only 1 of 25 isolations <BR>> was
succesfull. However, the same strain (confirmed by molecular
<BR>> methods) grew repeatedly and very well if we isolated them
from <BR>> sandflies. It might be useful for Dr. Sharma try to
get isolates <BR>> from sand flies. It is very laborious but
very useful, in Cukurova <BR>> we got about dozen of isolates
by this method (all identical).<BR>> Patients are rK39 negative, see
attached paper.<BR>> Best wishes<BR>> Petr<BR>> -----
Original Message -----<BR>> From: Chang,
Kwang-Poo<BR>> To: Sharman ; Hiro Goto ; elfadil
abass<BR>> Cc: <A
href="mailto:leish-l@lineu.icb.usp.br">leish-l@lineu.icb.usp.br</A><BR>>
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 1:39 AM<BR>> Subject: Re: [Leish-l]
inquiry<BR>><BR>><BR>> Dr. NL Sharma has been working on
an important CL endemic area <BR>> along the Satluj River
valley to the south of Himalaya in India <BR>> (Please correct
me should I be wrong for anything I said here and <BR>> below).
I had the good fortune of visiting the site several years <BR>>
back courtesy of Dr. Sharma.<BR>><BR>> I believe Dr.
Sharma's finding is important, since the parasites <BR>> there
are different from the familiar Indian L donovani in Bihar.
<BR>> The parasites are refratory to in vitro cultivation. They
do <BR>> differentiate into promastigotes and may grow a
little, but can't <BR>> really be subcultured to
establish passageable lines. This is very <BR>> much
reminescent of L infantum in the Mediterranean area. I recall
<BR>> Dr. Sharma has also found rK39+ dogs, if I remember correctly.
If <BR>> so, Satluj river valley is endemic to the
infantile CL.<BR>><BR>> Analyses of several batches of
basically clinical CL samples from <BR>> Dr. Sharma showed
evidence of L infantum, but also L tropica as well <BR>> as a
mixture of the two in one sample. This is the same picture we
<BR>> have noted for samples from Hatay,
Turkey.<BR>><BR>> These observations make me wonder a lot
about our current <BR>> knowledge on the clinico-epidemiology
based on data collected <BR>> previously by analyses of
cultured promastigotes from one or few <BR>> 'representative
samples'. Nowaday, technology makes it very doable <BR>> to
work with biological samples for Leish DNAs directly from sand
<BR>> flies, patients and reservoir animals.<BR>><BR>>
KP<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>
From: <A
href="mailto:leish-l-bounces@lineu.icb.usp.br">leish-l-bounces@lineu.icb.usp.br</A>
on behalf of Sharman<BR>> Sent: Fri 5/20/2011 11:31
PM<BR>> To: Hiro Goto; elfadil abass<BR>> Cc: <A
href="mailto:leish-l@lineu.icb.usp.br">leish-l@lineu.icb.usp.br</A><BR>>
Subject: Re: [Leish-l] inquiry<BR>><BR>><BR>> Dear
all<BR>> I agree with Hiro gito, We are working on a focus
where the CL is<BR>> predominantly caused by L. donovani, and
the rK 39 STRIPS GIVE POSITIVE<BR>> RESULTS WITH SERA as well
as serous exudate from the lesion. The <BR>> results
are<BR>> dependent upon species.<BR>> NL
Sharma<BR>><BR>>
--------------------------------------------------<BR>> From:
"Hiro Goto" <<A
href="mailto:hgoto@usp.br">hgoto@usp.br</A>><BR>> Sent:
Wednesday, May 18, 2011 12:09 AM<BR>> To: "elfadil abass"
<<A
href="mailto:elfadil_abass@yahoo.com">elfadil_abass@yahoo.com</A>><BR>>
Cc: <<A
href="mailto:leish-l@lineu.icb.usp.br">leish-l@lineu.icb.usp.br</A>><BR>>
Subject: Re: [Leish-l] inquiry<BR>><BR>> > Dear
all,<BR>> > In our oppinion, DAT and rK39 for those samples
are not indicated since<BR>> > these tests are
produced for the diagnosis of visceral
leishmaniasis.<BR>> > In case of tegumentary leishmaniasis,
it is very appropriate the<BR>> > observation of J.J. Shaw
appointing species specificity of antibody<BR>> > response
in these cases. Titers of antibodies are in general low <BR>>
in these<BR>> > cases therefore depending on the
species, it may result <BR>> negative. We
have<BR>> > published a review recently in Expert Rev.
Anti Infect. Ther. 8(4),<BR>> > 419?433 (2010),
Current diagnosis and treatment of cutaneous and<BR>>
> mucocutaneous leishmaniasis, where we raise this
point.<BR>> > Hiro Goto<BR>>
><BR>> > Citando elfadil abass <<A
href="mailto:elfadil_abass@yahoo.com">elfadil_abass@yahoo.com</A>>:<BR>>
><BR>> >> Dear all I would recommend using DAT and
rK39 strip test to measure<BR>> >>
antibody<BR>> >> responses and to evaluate the diagnostic
efficiency for both tests in<BR>> >> such
group<BR>> >> of patients.<BR>>
>><BR>> >> Elfadil Abass<BR>>
>> <BR>>
________________________________________________________________________________<BR>>
>> Institute of Medical Microbiology and Hospital
Hygiene<BR>> >> Philipps University
Marburg<BR>> >> BMFZ / Hans-Meerwein Straße
2<BR>> >> D-35033 Marburg, Germany<BR>>
>> <BR>>
________________________________________________________________________________<BR>>
>><BR>> >><BR>>
>><BR>> >><BR>> >>
________________________________<BR>> >> From: Nuha
Nuwayri-Salti <<A
href="mailto:racha@aub.edu.lb">racha@aub.edu.lb</A>><BR>>
>> To: saad saad <<A
href="mailto:saad1426@gmail.com">saad1426@gmail.com</A>>; "<A
href="mailto:leish-l@lineu.icb.usp.br">leish-l@lineu.icb.usp.br</A>"<BR>>
>> <<A
href="mailto:leish-l@lineu.icb.usp.br">leish-l@lineu.icb.usp.br</A>><BR>>
>> Sent: Fri, May 13, 2011 9:39:33 AM<BR>> >>
Subject: Re: [Leish-l] inquiry<BR>>
>><BR>> >> Dear Saad first precaution to take is to
separate your samples into<BR>> >>
several<BR>> >> portions each (at least 5 each being no
more than a few hundred(200-400)<BR>> >> microliters).
This is a necessary precaution to avoid freezing and<BR>>
>> thawing<BR>> >> several times the same sample
which will be the case should you do<BR>> >>
different<BR>> >> studies at different times which is
unavoidable.<BR>> >><BR>> >> What
you can do is correlate the type(ulcerated, abscess,
furuncle<BR>> >> etc.. ) the<BR>>
>> locale, the number and age of lesions with the levels of
<BR>> antibody in the<BR>> >> sera
of<BR>> >> these patgients and also monitor cell mediated
immunity with leishmanin<BR>> >> skin<BR>>
>> test!<BR>> >> I have just published (in print)
an article about having circulating<BR>> >>
parasites<BR>> >> in some of these patients with
apparently pure cutaneous disease. It is<BR>> >>
the<BR>> >> first paper that revealed this fact. It would
be interesting to confirm<BR>> >> or<BR>>
>> de-confirm this fact repeating what we did.<BR>>
>> Best wishes<BR>> >><BR>> >>
Nuha Nuwayri-Salti MD<BR>> >><BR>>
>><BR>> >><BR>> >>
AOA<BR>> >> Medical Honor Society<BR>>
>><BR>> >><BR>>
>><BR>> >><BR>> >>
-----Original Message-----<BR>> >> From: <A
href="mailto:leish-l-bounces@lineu.icb.usp.br">leish-l-bounces@lineu.icb.usp.br</A><BR>>
>> [mailto:leish-l-bounces@lineu.icb.usp.br]<BR>>
>> On Behalf Of saad saad<BR>> >> Sent: Friday,
April 29, 2011 11:23 PM<BR>> >> To: <A
href="mailto:leish-l@lineu.icb.usp.br">leish-l@lineu.icb.usp.br</A><BR>>
>> Subject: [Leish-l] inquiry<BR>>
>><BR>> >> Dear all<BR>> >>
Hi. i am Saad from Saudi Arabia. i have 60 sera from positive case
of<BR>> >> CL from south west of the country. I would
like to have your<BR>> >> recommendations to start a good
research line in CL using these sera.<BR>> >> Thanks in
advance for your help<BR>> >>
_______________________________________________<BR>> >>
Leish-l mailing list<BR>> >> <A
href="mailto:Leish-l@lineu.icb.usp.br">Leish-l@lineu.icb.usp.br</A><BR>>
>> <A
href="http://lineu.icb.usp.br/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/leish-l">http://lineu.icb.usp.br/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/leish-l</A><BR>>
>> _______________________________________________<BR>>
>> Leish-l mailing list<BR>> >> <A
href="mailto:Leish-l@lineu.icb.usp.br">Leish-l@lineu.icb.usp.br</A><BR>>
>> <A
href="http://lineu.icb.usp.br/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/leish-l">http://lineu.icb.usp.br/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/leish-l</A><BR>>
>><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>>
><BR>> > Profa. Dra. Hiro Goto<BR>> >
Laboratório de Soroepidemiologia e Imunobiologia<BR>> >
Instituto de Medicina Tropical de São Paulo, USP<BR>> > Av.
Dr. Enéas de Carvalho Aguiar, 470, prédio II, quarto andar<BR>>
> 05403-000 - São Paulo, SP<BR>> > Tel. +55-11-3061 7023,
3061 7056 ou 3061 7027<BR>> > Fax.
+55-11-3061-8270<BR>> ><BR>> >
_______________________________________________<BR>> >
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><BR>>
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